How To Install Hawk Pads and 2nd Gen Rotors

On a First Generation Neon

By Matt Beazer and Craig Grass
Last Updated 4/30/05



DISCLAIMER: THE BRAKING SYSTEM OF ANY VEHICLE IS VITAL TO DRIVER AND PASSENGER SAFETY.  DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS MODIFICATION IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE TECHNICAL
EXPERTISE TO DO SO SAFELY.  WE TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE RESULTS OF THIS MODIFICATION.


At first, I'd planned to slap some Hawk HPS pads on the Neon and call it good, until I could get around to more complex upgrades.  Then I looked and saw that the HP Plus was about ten bucks more, and promised more performance, with a consequence of increased rotor wear and more dust.  Dust doesn't bug me much, and rotor wear couldn't be much worse than the wear I'd seen with your standard crappy Raybestos Lifetime pads.
This I know about this first hand, as I foolishly put them on my Neon when I replaced the warped stock rotors when I bought the car.  (Some Monkey with air tools overtorqued the lugnuts and had the oil filter on so tight it barely came off with the infamous "screwdriver" method.)  The pads are fine if you're a normal driver.  Me, I classify how good a pad is by how well it stops me from over 100mph for the third time in a row.  Let's just say the Raybestos don't last past the first 1.5 100mph stops, fading into that land known as "Oh SHIT!" to drivers like myself worldwide.

I got the pads.  Nice pads, look good, I thought.  Then I read "you must replace the stock rotors or sand them with 130 grit sandpaper" section of the instructions.  Me, I'm lazy, I don't like diddling with a wear item part like rotors.  Then I remembered people saying that you could use the thicker Second Generation Neon rotors on a first gen, if you either sanded down stock 1st gen pads, or went to the second generation calipers.  The problem with the second gen calipers is that the brake line fitting is the wrong size.  You can tap the hole out if you want, but me, well, I don't like tapping holes in items I rely on to stop me from terminal speeds.  Again, just me. 

Then I thought, "Hmm, I wonder how thick these pads are, and how much I'd have to sand them down to make them fit".  So out came the dial caliper.  .655" thick, or 16.64mm.  I found the stock rotor thickness on the web, of .800", or 20.32mm thick.  A second gen is .870", or 22.10mm thick.  Both are 10.1" in diameter.  This I figured made the maximum pad thickness .697" to work with the second generation rotors properly.  I checked with Hawk, they do make seperate pads for first vs. second generation Neon, but don't list the pad thickness.

Then I went and annoyed some parts store clerks.  I looked at some Raybestos pads from the local Schucks Parts store (Checker, Kragen, all the same company).  Those were .711", or 18.05mm thick.  The Napa pads were encased in thin plastic, but measured .755".  So I went with the thinnest pads for my calculations for a margin of error.  This makes the Hawk HP Plus pads .056", or 1.41mm thinner.  Multiply this by two, since you have two pads, making a total of 2.82mm thinner.

The difference in thickness between the first and second generation Neon rotors is .070", or 1.78mm.  This leaves me with 1.04mm to spare, whohoo!  I went and bought some "Made in the USA" 2nd Gen brake rotors from Napa for $39 each.  (Though the boxes say Made in USA, the back of the rotors says Canada.  Huh?)

First, you need to ask yourself what part of the brake system is failing first under performance usage.  You can't jump straight to the pads, since they're only one part of the equation.  Here's some common braking problems.


"My brake pedal gets mushy the more I brake.  Sometimes it will even hit the floor if I keep it up long enough."

This isn't caused by a failure of the pads, but rather by your brake fluid.  It's boiling, causing the fluid to lose it's effectiveness as part of the hydraulic braking system.  Chances are, you've not bled your brakes in a long while.  Non-silicone based brake fluids (the majority of what are used today) absorb water over time.  This lowers the boiling point of the fluid.  This is why brake fluid generally has two measurements of boiling point, dry and wet.  Wet is generally the boiling point of the fluid after 6 months in a typical brake system, dry is of course fresh fluid out of the container.  This is why you never use brake fluid that's been opened and sitting in the garage for a while, even if the lid is on tight, it has absorbed some water.  DOT 4 means a dry boiling point over 500 degrees F generally, DOT 3 is somewhat lower.  Also, the material of the brake caliper piston can effect how quickly the fluid boils.  A metal-based piston conducts heat into the fluid faster than a composite piston.  Fortunately, all Neon calipers use a composite piston.

For those of us who are cheap, but not horribly cheap, you can get Valvoline Syntec brake fluid for a couple bucks for 12oz, or around 6 bucks for 32oz.  I personally went through 64oz of the stuff last time I bled my brakes, but I was really anal about it.  It has a boilding point of a bit over 500 degrees dry, over 330 wet.  You can also get some fancier fluids like Castrol SRF, ATE Super Blue, etc, but they're pricey, and the main difference is wet boiling points and a little improvement on the dry boiling points.  If you leave your fluid in the car for a long time, you might consider them, however.  Just watch for Silicone fluids, they're incompatible with standard fluids.


"My Pedal is firm, but I push and little or nothing happens."


Generally this is the pads/rotors overheating, or you're experiencing "Green fade" from pads that haven't been properly broken in.  When the pads haven't been cured yet or are overheating, a layer of gas builds up between the pad and the rotor, making a "cushioning" effect of the pressure applied by the brake.   This is why people tend to go to slotted/drilled rotors, since this provides a path for the gasses and worn off brake pad material to go.  Rotors with insufficient cooling mass or area can contribute to this.

The solution is to go for a pad that has a higher heat tolerance, go to larger/thicker rotors that have more mass to absorb heat and more area to radiate it, or modify the system so that the rotors get more air (ducting, etc).  Generally the weakness is the pad.  The Neon, stock, has Ceramic pads, which last a long time, and have a fairly high heat tolerance, and squeal very little.  Aftermarket pads sold at parts stores (Raybestos, etc) can use an Organic or semi-metalic pad that can wear faster and may have a lower heat tollerance.  Brake pad material is a tradeoff, usually if you have an exceptionally high heat tollerance, you end up with poor cold pad performance.  If you go for exceptional cold friction, you tend to sacrafice the high end heat tolerance.  Most standard pads are designed for good braking while cold, since most people brake rarely and lightly, never getting the pads more than lukewarm.   If they have to brake hard, it's a single stab at the brakes to avoid something, then cool cruising again.  They never have a chance to experience brake fade, and many pads never properly cure because of it, fading out suddenly under hard use, like coming down a long hill towing a trailer. 

High performance pads make a compromise more toward the hot end of the spectrum.  If you use a "Performance Street" or "Street/Strip/Autocross" pad, you generally have acceptable cold performance while having good performance under hot conditions as well.  The higher performance you go, the less effective the brakes are at low temperatures, and generally you get more pad wear, rotor wear, brake dust, and squealing than conventional pads. 


"I push the pedal, and I get a 'wobbly' sensation in the front end, and the pedal may pulsate slightly"

Your rotors are warped.  First generation Neon rotors were prone to warpage when the lugnuts were overtorqued (commonly by some idiot with air tools at a tire shop) as well as cracking and warping under high heat loads.  Rotors can also be warped by sudden uneven cooling, like driving through a deep puddle of water soon after heavy braking.  If you go to a shop that has to remove the wheels, make sure they use a torque wrench to properly torque the lugnuts.  Panic if they head for the car with an impact gun, unless it's set to low torque. 

At this point, your options are to have the rotors turned, making the rotor even thinner and more prone to warping again.  Or you can go with stock replacements, more expensive but will last longer.  Or you can go to aftermarket options if it keeps happening repeatedly.


"I push the pedal, and get horrible grinding, squealing noises coming from the front end!  The car also tends to 'leapfrog' while braking."

Hey, are you some kind of  Soccer Mom or something?  Your brake pads are shot, and your rotors probably are too if it's grinding!  Take those wheels off an inspect the pads, they're probably toast.  Oh yeah, and that blue smoke that comes out the back when you accelerate?  That's called CHANGE YOUR DAMN OIL!  Just kidding, folks. :)


That all said and done, let's go into the pictures and the process.

Note that I'm basing this off of my '98 Neon, so your car may vary slightly as far as the assembly goes.

Here's the parts and tools you'll need:


Here's some pictures of the Hawk Pads:

          
(Click Either Image For Larger View)

This is a shot of the side of the box and a shot of the pads themselves.  They don't have the "crease" or slot  in the middle like the normal stock pads do, they're all one piece for more surface area I'd imagine.  According to the box, these pads are made of a "Ferro-Carbon" compound, or "A high tech carbon fiber/metallic/organic fricton composide that is utilized by the automotive, aerospace, and motorsports industry".  It's also 100% asbestos free, so don't worry about your lungs (too much at least).  Also note I've been told by people on Neons.org that if you get the stock OEM pads, they may fit as well, though are thicker than the Hawk pads by .010":

"I just checked one of the new OEM pads for my '99 which are sitting in the basement; it's 16.88mm (.665"). Looks like they too would fit w/o a problem." -BigMac on Neons.org

Here's some pictures of the rotors:

     

(Click Any Image For Larger View)


Left top is the new '00 rotor, right top is the old (rather rusty) old rotor that had about 20,000 miles on it.  You can see the slight difference in thickness.  The new rotor, by the way, was .869" instead of .870", but I don't think it'll matter much!  The old rotor was hard to measure due to wear, but it was around .800".  The bottom picture is of course, both rotors side by side.


Installation

First off, you want to take off the front wheels so you can get at the brakes.  I'm assuming you know how to do so.  Then take the rotors and clean them carefully, as they're likely cover in gunk to keep them from rusting on the shelves.  They'll start to rust almost immediately, don't worry about it.

Look at the assembly first, note which way the caliper fits into the adapter bracket.  The calipers are identical, just flipped over to fit properly.  Remember this, it will save you a lot of time later when you're re-assembling! 

The calipers are held on by two 10mm bolts on the back of the caliper.  Unbolt them completely, and pull the bolts out.  The caliper should slide off fairly easily.  The outer pad is held in by a metal 4 prong clip.  Use a straight slot "flathead" screwdriver to pry the old pad off.  Leave the old pad in and use a brake pad spreader to push the piston back into the caliper.  Watch your brake fluid reservoir, as it may overflow as the piston gets compressed.  You might want to take the cap off and wrap a towel around the reservoir just in case.  Once the piston is compressed, remove the inner pad, it's just a friction-fit clip in. 

Pull the old rotor off, it should come off easily unless you have factory rotors, in that case it may be held on by a small metal clip over a lugnut.  Remove it and discard, it's only there to aid in the factory assembly.  Slide the new rotor on, making sure to support the caliper so it doesn't dangle and stretch or damage the brake line.  I'd recommend screwing a lugnut on to hold the rotor firmly in place like it would if the wheel was on, it will make it much easier to install the caliper.

Install the new pads, just press the inner pad in until it's firmly against the piston, then slide the outer pad on, the caliper has a sloped face to allow easy installation of the outer pad. 

Now slide the caliper over the rotor.  Note which way it notches into the adapter brackets.  On my car, the drivers side had the notch on top, and the bottom on the passenger side.  When the caliper is aligned properly, you'll be able to easily bolt it in with the two 10mm bolts.  Press the brake pedal a couple times to seat the pads against the rotor, make sure it rotates easily, it will drag slightly, but you should be able to easily move it back and forth as long as the car is out of gear.

Here's how it should look when complete:

  


Repeat for the other side.  This worked without a hitch for me.  The pads are thinner stock, so it went together as if it was designed to!

When done, make sure the lugnuts are torqued properly to spec, then take it for a test drive.  You can follow the included instructions (something like some 7-8 moderate stops from 30mph, then two hard ones from 45mph, then let it sit and cool for 15 minutes) to seat and break in the pads.  I went out and used them normally until I got to a straight backroad stretch, took it to 60mph and hauled it down to 30mph hard enough to toss whatever is sitting on the front passenger seat on to the floor.  I did this until I could smell hot brakes and the pedal went straight to the floor.  I drove gently for a few miles, using them as little as possible, and let them cool down.  If you do this, make sure to not park the car immediately afterward if you don't drive around for at least 15 mintes.  Otherwise you'll bake a single spot in the rotor where the caliper is sitting.  You want to rock it a few inches back or forward to move it to a different section of the rotor to let it cool more evenly.

I didn't get much of a chance to really feel the braking power since it was raining when I went for a test drive, though I got 'em plenty hot when breaking them in.  I can that driving it home afterward, the brakes felt a lot more progressive, had a better initial bite, and would lock up the tires easily on the wet roads I drove on.  The old Raybestos lifetime pads weren't nearly as good as this fully broken in.

Let me know if you find other pads that will work without shaving them, I'd be happy to add them to the list of workable pads!

Update 4/30/05

After 18 months or so of having these on my Neon, here's some things you should know about this particular combination of rotors and pads.

On The Rotors: The pedal feel is *very* firm.  It takes very little pedal movement to get the brakes to engage, and the difference between full-lockup and threshold braking is so small that anyone driving it needs some time to get used to the "feel" of the brakes, otherwise they can easily do a smokey lockup of the brakes accidentally.  The stroke is so short, it's hard to do proper pedal modulation.  I'd recommend this combination only to those people who like this, or who have ABS.  With ABS I think it would be excellent.  But they're so firm that I went to move my Dad's 2000 Mercury Sable into the garage and almost rammed the back wall of the garage.  The pedal travel from no engagement to full lockup on my Neon is about the same as light braking on the Sable.  Oops.

On The Pads:  I'd not recommend the Hawk HP+ Pads to anyone who doesn't do a lot of hard driving.  They work "okay" when cold, but work best when hot.  In the winter this was bad enough that I would conciously drag the brakes a bit for the first couple stops to get some heat in them, since they didn't stop very well cold, especially if wet.  These are not the pads to use on snowy roads if you can avoid it.  At low speeds these pads are lockup-prone (though probably made worse by the thicker rotors reducing pedal travel).  They dust heavily, and under light braking, especially when cold, they squeal like your wheels are about to fly off.  They eat rotors.  This is to be expected from a pad of this performance level, and I expected it, this is just a warning for those of us who can't live with the extra noise and dust.
On the plus side, at high speeds these really come into their own.  For autocross tracks that let you get beyond first gear, or for the occasional track trip, these would be great.  They're powerful enough to give passengers neck pain slowing from 70mph down to 40mph when something like, say, the radar detector goes off.  They also wear well; I've put 18 months of driving and around 20k on these pads, and they're less than half gone, though have worn 1mm or so deep into the rotor in the same amount of time.

In the end I'd recommend the Hawk HP Street Pads with these rotors for those of us who like a firm pedal with little travel or who have ABS, and stock rotors with the HP Street pads for people who want a bit more pedal travel for easier brake modulation. 

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